I was scrolling through r/books today and saw two posts from people who just wanted to express how much they loved a certain book. It was obvious from their posts that they absolutely LOVED this book and wanted to be excited about it and gush about it and hopefully get to talk with others who also loved it.
If you are a reader, you know this feeling. At least, I hope you do. That feeling when you finish a book and the realization comes over you that this book is an all-time favorite. And you desperately want to talk about how much you love it with other people, to share in that amazing feeling.
I mean, for us readers, isn’t that one of the greatest feelings?
I open the posts and see that the top most upvoted comments are people expressing that they hated the book…. one was rather blunt and rude and the other was polite and vague, but still. They saw someone expressing love for a book and just couldn’t help themselves from commenting that they hated it. Negative comments were upvoted and the comments agreeing with OP were downvoted to the bottom.
Listen, I understand disliking a book. There are a handful of authors I dislike and a handful I really really dislike (I hesitate to use the word “hate” because it feels too forceful) and when I see posts about them here – which is quite often – I just keep scrolling. I see it, it registers in my brain that someone enjoyed this author’s work, and I just move on. Sometimes maybe I will feel the urge to make a comment to respond to something specific about their post, and sometimes I do, but if I see a post from someone gushing about how much they adored a book, I don’t want to make a comment shitting all over that book, ESPECIALLY if I know that the book goes against what r/books usually hypes up. I keep the thoughts to myself because that is not the time to express them.
Of course criticism is allowed. I am not at all saying no negative opinions should be expressed here. What I’m trying to say is that if you see someone expressing joy and excitement over a book… let them. Let them have that and attract anybody else in the sub who feels the same. If you really hated the book that much then make your own post with all your arguments and points.
There’s a time and a place to be contrary, and it’s not every single time something you dislike is mentioned.
Edit: Let me make this even more clear: I love criticism!! Literary criticism is great, welcome, and healthy. I am referring to when people make a vague hateful comment in response to vague joy and excitement. You choose what posts you click into, nobody is forcing you to engage with something for which you are not the target audience.
Edit 2: For the love of sanity, read the whole post before commenting. You are on r/books, no? Presumably you like reading books? If so, you can read a few paragraphs before leaping to conclusions and accusations.
by FusRoDaahh
39 Comments
Meh, somebody disagreeing with your uncritical praise isn’t stopping you from anything. You can still enjoy a book even if people disagree with your assessment. Hell, you can still enjoy the book even if it actually is bad! There is literally nothing stopping you.
Somebody being rude about it, insulting your taste and intelligence? Yeah, that would actually be bad… and it (should) get moderated. But somebody disagreeing about the book itself? That’s just a discussion. That’s the point of having a forum!
If you want to enjoy a book with no criticism, don’t post to an opinion forum. Uncritically positive circlejerks make for, frankly, boring if not actively unpleasant threads. We shouldn’t be *encouraging* them.
Reddit isn’t really the place for “I want to share my opinion and only want people who agree with me to engage.” I also think if someone else disliking a thing, even bluntly or rudely, maeks you not enjoy the thing, you didn’t particularly enjoy it.
Reddit is for discussion. Yeah, it’s a bummer if you love a book and want to gush and get met with boos but… you probably should gush elsewhere.
But maybe I’m being overly blunt because I think “let people enjoy things” has become a phrase to bludgeon people with whenever they provide decent criticism. You’re not necessarily doing that here but that’s what the phrase is often deployed for.
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EDIT: Got blocked for this. Well, at least OP took my advice to shape their own experience! Lol.
We never had “Let people enjoy things”, so didn’t lose it. That’s why that one comic went viral.
What’s the value in uncritically enjoying things in a discussion forum? Certainly, in the privacy of your own home, in your diary, even on your Twitter feed, it feels nice to just say “I love this book” but what does that add in a forum?
Rule #1 of this forum is “discussion is the goal” and discussion often means disagreement. As long as someone is polite and (ideally) lays out well-argued points about why they disagree, how is that at all a bad thing?
People have this weird notion that their opinions absolutely must be heard no matter what. At least that’s what the internet seems like to me. Someone says they like cotton candy and guaranteed someone else just has to let them know how much they hate it.
Let people hate things
I feel like people might not quite be getting the point.
OP points out something I’ve seen everywhere, not just Reddit. I agree, by sharing anything online you accept the possibility that you’ll get comments like this or run into people who don’t share the same opinions. They get that. This isn’t about whether or not anyone should grow thicker skins or not liking to be disagreed with.
The point is that it is *weird* to listen to a person gush over something they clearly enjoyed, and just go “Actually I hated it lol.” That’s not what criticism is- that’s flippantly taking the wind out of someone’s sails to hopefully get a rise out of them. It’s on the same level as people commenting on an art piece “wow that’s ugly”. If you saw a person in real life happily talking about something and decided to butt in with an offhand disparaging comment, how do you think they would feel?
I’m sure plenty of folks would absolutely love to have a *constructive* discussion about what people feel worked and didn’t work about their favorite book. But trollish comments like that aren’t helpful to anyone. Yes, they have the right to say what they want, but it’s still an extremely strange thing to do when they could simply shrug and move on. It’s legitimately a problem and it should be talked about more.
I always upvote these posts even if I don’t like that particular book.
Hate to be that person, but weren’t you just doing the same thing a few hours ago?
Someone made a post admiring a grim dark author who subverted his expectations from usual grim dark tropes and you jumped on the dog pile, leading to that user deleting his post. I admit, the post was poorly phrased, but nobody bothered to verify that’s what he meant before they began insulting him. The poor guy wanted to open up a discussion about a scene from the book but everyone made him feel a bad person instead.
I agree with this post, but please reflect on your own actions as well.
For me, it depends on how it’s done.
This is a community to talk about books. I don’t see the point if we have to censor our opinion on what we like or dislike about a book simply because the post starts off being positive or negative.
Being overly negative in an “you’re wrong!” kind of way is obviously not helpful. But hearing different opinions on what people liked or disliked only helps others find out if a specific book is for them. Or let people who like the same type of books or themes connect.
This kind of take really annoys me. ‘Just let people enjoy things’? Take your own advice. Saying you didn’t like a book is not ‘hateful’, it’s taking part in a conversation about a topic by stating your own experience of that topic. Just because you didn’t like something that someone else likes does not mean you are not allowed to join a conversation. If someone says ‘I love beetroots’ and the person they’re speaking to hates beetroots, it’s not ‘hateful’ or ‘negative’ for them to say they hate beetroots. You don’t have to shut up and smile blandly just because someone’s having their precious positivity time. This is a space for public conversation, not for protecting people from differing opinions.
Not to unduly criticize your thread, but I don’t feel at all like people respond too negatively to others gushing over books.
It doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of a book at all to see other people say something negative about it. Either I agree and think that the book could have been changed to be even better. The book must have some really good qualities for me to love it despite its flaws. Or I disagree. Or if the critique is vague then I may not know whether I agree with the criticism. All of those outcomes are completely fine and don’t detract from the joy I take from a book.
As to rude comments, of course, those are bad – no matter who makes them. But they are part of human nature and how it interplays with the internet. I don’t think they are getting more or less common.
If we’ve lost anything, I think it’s the ability to enjoy a civil debate about whether a book is good without maligning the criticism as some sort of attack designed to hurt the feelings of the person who liked a book.
One of my personal least favourite genres of post in this sub is “I have read 3 pages of X book and they are the greatest pages I have ever read in my life – but **no spoilers please!** “. If you can’t discuss the actual content of a book, the only thing left to do is circlejerk about how amazing you thought it was without actually saying anything meaningful.
But I kind of feel like I might be in a minority here because it sounds like you’re saying that even if we can discuss the content of a book, positivity circlejerk should still be not only an option but also a target. In my opinion a list of 100 comments all saying “I too loved this book” is of so little value that we should barely allow it in this sub at all.
I think it’s a bit asinine to make a post to a book discussion forum if you’re going to be upset when people then… discuss the book in the comments.
Isn’t this more about how we get played by mechanics of social media? Upvoted stuff will be spread by the algorithm, which in turn cause more upvotes. But when someone see that hundreds or thousands of people can stand by that “X book is total awesome”, this is no longer percieved as just “someone” liking said book, this is seen more as a consensus or a mass movement. So people react by standing proudly against the tide and proclaim that this book, in fact, isn’t very good. When, really, it’s just someone liking a book.
This sub is a lovely place to just gush about what you liked.
[I Read a Book and Adored It](https://www.reddit.com/r/IReadABookAndAdoredIt/s/bAU4kxwltj)
No, I think it’s more about re-learning that it’s OK to disagree with someone. Often you get the opposite issue where anything negative is downvoted relentlessly by people who want every comment to be positive. Sure, people being disruptively negative are one thing, but it’s OK if I love a book and you dislike it. I should be able to read criticism of something without it affecting me. It’s not a red flag or litmus test if you like/dislike something different to me.
Even with my absolute closest friends in the world who I’ve known for decades and who have the same class/ethnic/regional background as me – there are things they love and I hate (and vice versa). And that’s fine.
No. Every single great masterpiece has come from saying ‘fuck you’ to an earlier masterpiece. If you want a new “To Kill a Mockingbird”, you need someone who thinks the old “To Kill a Mockingbird” everyone likes is artistically stale trash that must be destroyed. If ‘people like it’ is the only standard, rebellion is dead. ‘Amusing’ will always beat ‘beautiful’. All that remains is popularity, a status achieved by being rich, attractive, pandering or all three. The embrace of ‘everything is equally art’ is a chokehold around the neck of the muse.
Do people just not want to hear differing opinions, even if it’s polite? That should still count as discussion, right? If a comment makes you this angry, downvote it and move on.
Good old pathologic positivity. Expressing a negative opinion about something is somehow inherently negative and expressing positive opinion is inherently positive.
Everyone online is the main character of the story.
Why would you come to a book forum if you don’t want to hear others’ opinions about books?
If you don’t want people to disagree with you, don’t post your opinions on a public forum
The books I choose to read is a very personal thing to me. What other people think, doesn’t enter that space.
I think we let people enjoy things far too much. We need to be much meaner.
“Let people enjoy things” is the death of actual critical discussion and taste. I absolutely hate it
It’s not just books. It’s absolutely everything!! You have to pick a side and then defend it vehemently. Take to the streets! Make sure I know that you opinion is the only opinion. Disrupt completely unrelated things so you can Really make sure I know how you feel. Rightousness rules.
Sorry, you’re talking about books.
Posting on a public forum is an inherent invitation for people to share their own opinions, whether they agree or disagree with you. If you don’t want to start a discussion, this is the wrong place to post.
Social media has given EVERYONE a voice, and sadly there’s a lot of suffering in this world. That makes for a lot of angry, miserable people, and many of them choose to express this misery by tearing down anything and everything.
At what point in human history did we have the concept of “let people enjoy things”?
No but if you post something, it’s implied you want to engage on it.
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I’m in my 50s and this concept you speak of has NEVER existed … it is just easier to spread.
/r/books is a pretty judgmental place tbh. If you like a book that others here dislike, or didn’t enjoy a super popular book (looking at you Count of Monte Cristo), you’ll definitely be downvoted.
And don’t even get me started on the whole “audiobooks aren’t reading” crowd…
This speaks to a broader cultural issue of people being disgusted by someone’s enthusiasm for something.
How about you let me enjoy not liking things and being vocal about it? Is it cool if I’m free?
I agree than needless negativity is wrong, but at the same time, this is a forum to talk about books. As long as someone replying doesn’t cross the line, I think its fine for another person to share their opinion. If “letting people enjoy something” means not hearing an alternative opinion about it to you, then why even make the effort to post something here? If you want validation about your opinion on a book, I guess thats fine, but this sub would be pretty boring if that’s all it was. I guess my point is, if you just want to enjoy something, why are you even posting to reddit about it? If you don’t want other’s opinions, you don’t need to go looking for them.
Then post in a forum dedicated solely to fans of such a book. Let people hate things.
Totally agree. It’s a really sad sight when you see someone who obviously had a tremendous time with something and then immediately followed by a horde of people shitting on said thing. Like you said, there’s a time and place, but when someone is clearly glowing about something, let em have it for goodness sakes!