I don't know what to say. I've been feeling down since hearing the news. I found out about Neil through some of my other favorite authors, namely Joe Hill. I've just felt off since hearing about what he's done. Authors like Joe (and many others) praised him so highly. He gave hope to so many from broken homes. Quotes from some of his books got me through really bad days. His views on reading and the arts were so beautiful. I guess I'm asking how everyone else is coping with this? I'm struggling to not think that Neils friends (other writers) knew about this, or that they could be doing the same, mostly because of how surprised I was to hear him, of all people, could do this. I just feel tricked.
by Thewoodsthemountain
22 Comments
Yeah Neil was one of Reddit’s cringeworthy ‘protect him at all costs!!!11’ celebrity fascinations so I imagine a lot of people here feel the same as you. Good reminder that you should assume nothing about any artist’s personal life and in no way base your respect for their work on anything you think you know about them.
To the people that need to hear it: yes even Weird Al, yes even Brendan Frasier, yes even Terry Crews.
The artist turns out to be a dick.
The art remains good.
Seriously though, what a dick.
You’d think that after the Me Too movement, we’d all be prepared to hear that someone in the public eye is a beast behind the scenes. I know I’m not really surprised anymore.
How do we cope? We notice the signs (hello, the signs were there) and manage expectations. We move on. Don’t waste your time on someone who disappointed you. There are other authors to get excited about.
The issue here is the notion of celebrity.
after growing up loving bill cosby… i’m pretty jaded at this point
Sorry, what happened? I’ve been focused on One Ear today
I recently read a quote while studying Stoicism. I believe it was Seneca who said this, but I will paraphrase:
“Good ideas are for all of humanity, regardless of the source.”
It is okay to take comfort in the stories and messages, while also disagreeing with the Author as a person.
Think of all the actors, musicians, artists, and etc who were not good people but created something good. Think of Doctors who absolutely suck as a person, but might be the one to save your life at their place of work.
His friends knows that he’s a dead beat dad who ditched his wife all alone in a completely foreign country. I wouldn’t consider them to be decent people even before the latest news.
And whatever truth there is to the allegations he still had sex with an employe almost a third of his age. A famous, wealthy older man with all the power that goes along with that. He perused his childs 23 year old nanny.
That’s being a scumbag in my eyes.
It pisses me off the same way Joss Whedon does, because they tout themselves as feminists and then turn out to be the exact opposite.
Between Gaiman and Munro, it has not been a good period for the arts.
As if the world didn’t suck enough otherwise, right? trololol. Fuck.
I don’t know how to talk about him personally, but I can address the friends issue. He showed up as his best self to these guys. A pretty similar person to who you see. He saved the parts of himself that we’re seeing now for those who were vulnerable or in a position to be exploited. When they told you he was a good guy, that’s because that’s the person that they know.
Never worship or idolize celebrities (or anything else for that matter).
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During the pandemic I diecovered Neil Gaiman’s Sandman.
I quickly consumed it in its entirety as well as supporting media and side stories, I then consumed American Gods, Norse Mythology, Mr Punch, Violent Cases, Graveyard Book, Neverwhere, and Death’s spinoff novels.
This then opened me up into the world of DC Vertigo with Lucifer, Swamp Thing, John Constantine and eventually Batman and Superman / Justice League.
I do owe a lot to Neil Gaiman for bringing that spark back to me, and as an artist/writer myself I am genuinely a fan *of his work* and *of his thoughts on writing/stories and the power of story telling*.
I truly believe the world can enjoy *a good idea* regardless of its source.
Meh. I don’t feel like anything. These are not my friends. I’ve never met them, or hung out with them, or been invited to their weddings or anything. I “know” them through carefully cultivated PR packages. None of these people are real. And some of them are POS, like in real life, but none of them are really knowable. Separate the artist and the art. Enjoy the art and stop worshipping the artist
How could you write all that and not include whatever it is “he did”….come on that’s just cruel
This is probably gonna be kinda long, but I think you may find it helpful…
I’ve been a huge fan of Neil for about 30 years. I was buying Sandman comics when the comic was still being released in its first run. Back in 2005, I got to hang out with Neil for about 2 hours because I was working for a film festival that was showing Mirror Mask. It was pretty much one of my lifetime high points.
Fast forward to 2017, and I meet this girl and Neil Gaiman comes up, so I mention that one time I got to hang out with him and she mentions that she actually used to date him. Anyway, through some weird alchemy, this girl and I instantly connect and become just the best of friends. We figure out before too long that I actually met her briefly that day 12 years prior, when I was Walking Neil back to introduce Mirror Mask. A STUNNING coincidence, with a particular moment we had both even written about in our respective Livejournals (2005, remember). So at this point, our friendship feels like kismet. Neil Gaiman was a central figure in the formation of our amazing friendship and had been from the start.
So, over the past 7 years, she’s told me interesting and funny stories about Neil. One that stands out is that he was in his 40s before he realized that underwear comes in different sizes. But she always limited what she said. I would catch her starting to say something and then cutting herself off. She’d say that she didn’t want to tell me too much because she didn’t want to ruin how I see Neil, him being my favorite author and such. But as the years went on, she started being more free. She started by pointing out young women, 18-20, and saying that when she looks at them, she just sees children, and wondered how older men could even be sexually attracted to girls that young. She said that thinking back on her relationship with Neil made her more and more uneasy as time went on.
Then, all at once, she finally told me the whole story. I don’t know what triggered it, but it all came out in a flood and she ended up curled up on her kitchen floor, with her head in my lap, sobbing as she recounted everything that happened with Neil, how they broke up, and what he did to torment her even afterwards. This is the same story she went on to tell on the podcast, using the name “K.”
So, in that moment, I had to jettison from myself any feelings of respect and admiration I had for Neil Gaiman. Honestly: Fuck that guy. I do still like his works. I watched Sandman on Netflix and Good Omens Season 2 after hearing her story. I still enjoyed them and rarely thought of him in association. But Neil Gaiman, the outspoken progressive, the champion of women and minorities and LGBTQ… that stellar example of humanity was dead to me. It was an unearned reputation, cultivated through decades of public manipulation, while he used his position and that same reputation, to do degrading sex acts to young impressionable women, whether they wanted them or not.
Fuck Neil Gaiman. He’s a piece of shit. I don’t mourn the respect I once had for him. I am angered by it. And I now know better than to look up to an artist for more than their art.
Look on the bright side: Pratchett is long dead without controversy. You have at least 50% of good omens to look fondly on?
While I understand your point about those around him, I don’t think it’s necessarily true. Think about how many serial killers are married or have families who had no idea what they were really like. While not the same level, abusers are often very cunning and can easily hide their true self from those around them.
I think we have the habit of taking artists and putting them on a pedestal in general and this REALLY needs to stop. It’s no different than when we see folks worshipping Taylor Swift and constantly defending everything she does. Take art for what it is and take the artists are human beings, they are no different than you and I.
I learned to do this when I started working at a church when I noticed that folks were treating pastors as someone so much better than the average person. They are fallible to greed, vanity, and wrath just like the rest of us.
I just found out from this post. I was initially shocked. But after thinking about it, I’m not entirely surprised. Neil’s writing about women (particularly in his short stories) has been a little iffy for me for some time. Sometimes he creates these really amazing characters, but other times they’re just fetishy and icky. But you ignore it because the narrator acknowledges they’re fetishizing the other person.
But yeah, it makes me feel really depressed.
Hope Scarlett and K are able to get some form of justice.
Time to separate the art from the artist