Ayn is really popular *in certain* groups of people. Conservatives, Libertarians and other kinds of liberals(in the original meaning of liberal, not the US-adopted)
She gets tons of shit in this sub and I just don’t get why people that are not in the groups even started reading her books when they are not part of her niches.
Even in those circles, she is praised by her allegories to liberal ideas and not for her literature skills. It is a common saying that she is a “bad writter” in those groups.
To be clear, I studied Poltical Science/International Relations. I *had* to read Ayn Rand.
She is very good way of understanding liberal and liberatarians ideas and is very important to the maturing of western poltical ideas. Wheater you like her or not, she arguibly very important in the formation of some of the most important poltical ideas in the west, and it is no shit she figures in PS university curriculums and has an International foundation in her name.
But her writting sucks, and absolutely no one is reading if not by affinity or to understand better that sides of the poltical spectrum.
So my question is, for all those people that picked up a Rand book without any of this background, what were you expecting? Did you read entirely unaware of why she is famous for, or was something more like “well, maybe I could start liking”.
by Sensitive_Counter150
29 Comments
I read one of her books because I’d heard a lot of talk about them and wanted to see for myself. I expected I wouldn’t be on the same page as her. I was surprised to discover just how shockingly bad her writing was, and even more, how incredibly flimsy her arguments were.
I feel like I was convinced to hate her by left leaning influencers and media way more than I should have. Read Atlas Shrugged recently and it changed my perspective on her writing. She can still be very verbose, but the conflict, characters and political commentary is all very on point. Almost chilling to see the real life parallels.
In pretty much each of these daily “which beloved author just doesn’t speak to you? whose books do you hate?” threads, Ayn Rand is named. I am a little suspicious about whether that many people start reading her books despite everyone warning you not to do it and her being the postergirl for libertarianism
Much better writing, less rambling, more balance. I hated the fiction and checked out the essays, which made me hate her as a person. Once wikipedia happened I understood that my instincts were pretty correct.
I knew one person who loved her but I had no idea of her reputation. Before the internet there was very little context for most books unless an adult gave you some background, which almost never happened.
Bad books that remain culturally relevant have some strange allure to me. I’m the type of person that roots for the underdog, so I went in thinking it might be some weird hidden gem that most people didn’t understand for whatever reason. I was not expecting dry political ramblings and the most unengaging plot ever. I made it maybe 30% through the fountainhead before quitting.
I was attracted to her writing for the same reason as the Conservatives and Libertarians you mention above, I was childish. I was in high school and the idea of being innately better than other people but unrecognized for this virtue appealed to my childish brain. Sadly, this is a mindset that conservatives never grow out of. I am grateful to Ayn Rand for exposing me to the ugliness at the heart of this worldview and for exposing how reductive and selfish most conservative arguments are. If Ayn Rand is a thought leader then the thoughts aren’t very deep.
I think The Fountainhead is pretty good. That’s about it. Not a libertarian or conservative. I just like the book.
The sad truth is: I have to blame Gilmore Girls for this. Ayn Rand is not that popular in my country (Germany) but as a book person you know the name. I looked her up because Atlas Shrugged is mentioned a lot on „book top lists“. I was not that interested, but then there was a scene in Gilmore Girls in which Rory says that Rand‘s approaches may be horrible but „no one writes dialogues like her“. This made me curious. Predictably, I didn’t enjoy her writing at all.
I was expecting nothing good or bad. It was when her attempts at creative writing bled into university courses I was taught and she started popping up in my feed more often than Stephen King did I start to hate her. She doesn’t live up to the hype at all.
You answered this yourself: she was required reading for your course. People who know they will hate her work are being forced to read her in school or university.
Atlas shru is pretty good. Don’t get the hate
I read The Fountainhead years ago because I try to read as many classics/popular novels of history as I can just to see what they’re all about. It became then, and still is, my favorite book, along with Moby-Dick. How’s that for variety in writing talent/style?
Since then I’ve read Anthem, Atlas Shrugged, We the Living, and Night of January 16. Would love to understand why she’s so hated but the answer is always the same generic “her ideology is offensive”, etc. without actually explaining how so.
I listened to The Fountainhead audiobook recently and I think people listen to the first part of her ideology and not the second — “I owe you nothing and I’m not your slave and I can pursue whatever I want out of my own desire to do so // YOU owe me nothing and you’re not MY slave and YOU can pursue whatever YOU want out of YOUR own desire to do so.”
How that is offensive to people I’ll never understand. But I guess we just disagree, because I don’t think I’m their slave and I don’t think they’re mine, whereas they think we’re all each others’ slaves or something? I don’t know, I’d love to understand it, but it just doesn’t make sense to me.
Can someone summarize the reasons for the dislike of her philosophy, her writing skills notwithstanding?
I actually read all her books by choice and loved them lol
I prefer *Telemachus Sneezed*
There’s got to be a better literary vehicle for libertarian ideas out there, because this isn’t it.
I tried reading The Fountainhead. I got interested in it because of some books about Frank Lloyd Wright that mentioned Rand and FLW’s influence on her (she was, um, a bit of a fangirl in that direction) and thought the book might be interesting in light of that connection.
I knew about the plot. I knew about the ideas. The problem was that the prose was crap, and it wasn’t going to carry me through.
I wanted to familiarize myself with writers across the political spectrum (I’m progressive) so I picked up Anthem since it was the shortest. I actually enjoyed the story and I didn’t think the writing was bad. I rolled my eyes at a few of the more on-the-nose parts towards the end. So while it certainly didn’t sway me particularly, I don’t think it was a waste of my time.
You should not only read things you know you will agree with. The best way to be capable of challenging positions you disagree with is to be familiar with their dogma.
I’ll say this, regardless of where you stand on her philosophy, she’s just not a very good writer. She actually reminds me of De Sade in that she puts philosophy ahead of storytelling (although De Sade does a much better job with characterization and succinct writing, even then).
Someone could easily rewrite Atlas Shrugged to be 10X better of an actual book, without a whole lot of effort or talent required.
Not starting a love plot with a horrendously brutal rape scene would have been nice.
I thought it was going to be a young girl’s strange, erotic journey from Milan to Minsk not some horse shit.
I’d never heard of her. I had no expectations. But I read a lot of vintage books, post WWI to 60s so eventually I stumbled across Atlas Shrugged. Found it aggressively bad and DNFd.
Liberal == liberty. That is what liberal means.
I read Ayn Rand because I wanted to understand what she was all about (i.e., people who like her work are very strongly fans of her work, and I was vaguely aware of the institute associated with her).
What was I “expecting”? A story. Something that would make me think. I read it in my early 20s and I actually did enjoy aspects of “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Fountainhead.” For instance, the architect, starting out, is desperately looking for work and doesn’t want to sell out. Okay. I get that. And he finds a job, designing a summer camp for families. And he’s all like, okay, here’s my chance. Okay. I get that too. And he does the design and the whole thing goes up. Wow. Isn’t that great? Here’s a young man who’s gotten his chance and succeeded. The place is a wild success, mainly because of the architecture: he’s designed the cabins so that each one has privacy. Most of the visitors book for the next season. Word of mouth has every cabin taken and a waiting list.
And the whole thing’s a scam. The people putting it together had planned for the place to be a flop. They’d sold something like 400% of available stock in the company. (Yes, it’s the plot to “The Producers.”) They’d deliberately picked this architect not because they respected his work but because they figured he had such a bad reputation that it would help guarantee a failure.
And for someone very young, this little subplot really really resonates. No one has faith in you. People use you. But you genuinely have a gift and just want a fair chance to show it. So, yes, that scene really had an impact.
And in “Atlas Shrugged,” I did actually have appreciation for the world building of the characters. I recall being so impressed with Dagny Taggart’s struggle to keep the trains running. How she sacrifices one secondary line after another to keep the intercontinental running.
I went back to the books in my late 30s … and I was shocked, shocked at how bad they were. I noticed things that early 20s me had missed entirely. There are NO elderly people in the books. There are no children in the books. She sets up scenes in ways that just aren’t realistic, etc.
I’m still glad I read them in my 20s. I’m even gladder I revisited them in my 30s. Perhaps I’ll dip back in again.
I’ve read the creationist tracts. I’ve read Darwin. If I’m not willing to take up both sides, if only just so that I understand the issues at hand, I’m only doing half the job.
That’s why I read Ayn Rand.
I was assigned Anthem in high school. It was whatever at the time, and I came from a lower income background where we didn’t discuss politics.
As an adult I read some of her work because her philosophies are/have been of influence, sitting next to John Winthrop and the like.
Edit: I’ve been reminded of a friend who bought in deep on the idea that people only do what benefits them, or should. She was a nightmare.
Is English not your first language?
To be totally fair, you may have answered your own question a little here:
>She is very good way of understanding liberal and liberatarians ideas and is very important to the maturing of western poltical ideas. Wheater you like her or not, she arguibly very important in the formation of some of the most important poltical ideas in the west, and it is no shit she figures in PS university curriculums and has an International foundation in her name.
Since Rand’s work these days doesn’t seem to be what most people would go straight to for leisure, I suspect most people who read her actually do read her because she’s fundamental to an ideology which, for better or worse, is very important in modern society and they either have to or just want to get why she’s considered all that. It’s just that, since they’re only human, they also have to rant about how much she *suuuuuuuucks* as well.
When I was 15 I thought she was brilliant…
A lot of people say they love her writing