July 2024
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    I am an 18 y/o woman, raised in a Jewish household, holding atheistic beliefs, and I have never read the Bible. I intend to do so, using the Everett Fox Schocken Bible for the Five Books and, if I wish to proceed, the Robert Alter translation+commentary, first rereading the Torah, the proceeding to the Prophets+Writings, then find something I don’t have around the house for the New Testament. I wish to read in order to expand my grasp of the Western Canon.

    I read several chapters of the highly impressive The Hebrew Bible: A Socio-Literary Introduction, by Norman K. Gottwald. However, the lens of Bible as *foundation* is one the book does not seem to focus on, in favor of context. I consider myself to have a basic contextual understanding due to my upbringing, but I don’t know how to view it as *fundamental* like so many have told me it is. I’m not even sure how much of it I’m supposed to read in order to gain understanding, besides the Torah and Gospels. Please advise, especially if you know a free high-quality commentary on the New Testament.

    by cope_a_cabana

    23 Comments

    1. Really, you need Genesis and Exodus, reading Job and some of the prophets would be helpful. Definitely whichever book Samson is in. Other than that, one gospel and the Book of Revelation should get you what you’re looking for. The big important to the western canon bits are Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Moses and Pharaoh, Moses and the desert, David and Goliath, David and whatever woman he’s screwing around with, some stuff with Solomon, Samson and Delilah, Job and good versus evil (or why YHWH is evil), the basics of Jesus and then the big apocalypse at the end. Understanding more stories will open up more references, but those are the big ones in the most stuff.

      Fuck, also Abraham and Sarah and the story of Noah and his kids. I totally blanked on those ones but they are big. But also stories you’re likely familiar with.

    2. david-writers on

      > How do I understand the Bible as a foundation of the Western Canon that is referenced in other literature?

      It is not a foundation of “the Western Canon” that is referenced in other literature.

      By the way: Roman literature and Roman culture is what most of North America has copied. Ditto Greek literature; ditto Christian monk’s literature regarding the Northern Barbarians (Angle; Norman; Lumbar; Francs; aka “vikings”); ditto American Indian mythology in literature; ditto Far East literature—- all of these are major literary influences in “western canon.”

      Canaanite; Assyrian; Babylonian; Hebrew; other Near East mythologies such as the bible has had and has a minor role in what could be called “western canon” literature. Ditto Christian mythology.

      The American Heritage Dictionary claims one must know Hebrew and Christian mythology to understand English, even though English is a Teutonic language and dominates “western canon.”

    3. This is more of a historical question than a literary one, in my opinion. The Bible is foundational to western lit due to the primacy of Christianity to European culture over the last 1700 years. Understanding its impact is a question of understanding the various Christian thinkers and writers over the centuries which have then filtered into literature more broadly.

    4. nancy-reisswolf on

      >but I don’t know how to view it as fundamental like so many have told me it is

      well it is fundamental as it informs moral values that are put in literature of those who grew up faithful or surrounded by the faith. Christian influences were huge, even during oral traditions and only further driven that way once they were written down.

      It’s especially egregious in fairy tales and similar stuff. The Hans Christian Andersen original Little Mermaid for example is so christian it hurts haha. The Grimm Fairytale stuff, too, is extremely Christian. So even the stories that children were confronted with typical already had a Christian slant to them, which of course would inform their writing as adults.

    5. No_Wolf_3134 on

      I took a college course in reading the Bible as literature in undergrad and we used the oxford annotated Bible, which was amazing! It gives a lot of historical context which is helpful for understanding, though it’s not exactly what you’re looking for.

    6. YakSlothLemon on

      It’s not the foundation of the western canon any more than the Iliad and Odyssey are. Indispensable, yes, but not the foundation. Remember that after the fall of Rome illiteracy was the rule for close to a millennia, and even after that the Catholic Church didn’t exactly encourage ordinary people to read the Bible at all. The stories everyone is familiar with were certainly part and parcel of what it was expected people would know, and underlie major works of early Western literature like Pilgrim’s Progress, but if you’re looking for it as the ‘foundation’ I think you’re looking for something that isn’t there.

    7. soup-creature on

      If it makes you feel better, I grew up in a very Christian area, and most the Christian people I know never read the Bible. If you just want to know what the stories are, I had a book as a kid that told the stories without all the scripture that explained all the morals and allegories. Of course, feel free to read the whole thing if you please; there are a number of different versions with different writing styles and even versions with commentary in the margins.

    8. If you’re interested in the Bible as a work of literature that influenced other later works, the King James Version would be my suggestion – highly regarded as a work of poetry in its own right and certainly highly influential to English language literature for centuries.

    9. TheCapitalKing on

      I’m not 100 on your goal. If you want to understand the religion that affected the writing of the canon writers, and you are decently well versed in Jewish culture/religion. You could get a good understanding by reading one of the three (Mathew, Mark, Luke) then John, then Hebrews. Then to really get the puritans read James

    10. scherzophrenic86 on

      Some great video resources are available from Yale on YouTube. There’s an Intro to the Hebrew Bible course by Christine Hayes, and from the Divinity School there’s Hebrew Bible Interpretation by Joel Baden (one of my favorite speakers on any topic ever). Both courses can be watched entirely on YouTube.

      They focus on the literary development and social history of the text. Joel Baden’s lectures in particular are great because he is the primary architect of the revised Documentary Hypothesis.

    11. I’m an athiest raised Catholic. The Bible is mostly excellent reading. I fail to see why people are afraid of reading it. It’s not like you get cooties from it. Read it with the understanding that God is a metaphor. I’m not sure I understand your question. For Western civilization, it was the most distributed and read book in an age when there were (literally) no other books available. It’s the foundation of Western literature and thinking by default.

    12. The Norton Anthology of World Religions is a wonderful resource. Volume 2 includes Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The editors’ introductions alone are amazing.

    13. AffectionateSize552 on

      For the Western canon, certain translations of the Bible have been dominant, which are exciting reads in their own right, stylistically impressive, which is probably the most imprtant reason why they dominated — but generally not the most accurate translations of the original texts. For the Catholic West until the Reformation in the 16th century, the Latin Vulgate was dominant. Since then, for English authors, the King James Bible has been the most important, for German authors, the Lutherbibel, and in other languages, I don’t know.

    14. thoughtfullycatholic on

      If you read the Bible and then you read (or reread) the key texts of the Western Canon you will be able to see how it is foundational because you will get the references, quotes and concepts that turn up all over the place in virtually every work. But if you don’t read the Bible chances are you won’t see the pervasive way in which the it is present in the Canon. And, so far as the English part of the Canon goes, you specifically need to read the King James Version (except for Shakespeare who tends to reference the Geneva Version).

      It’s not just the Canon. If you read practically any Western book, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, written prior to about 1960 the chances are the Bible will have played some part in its content. And this includes writers of left and right, men and women, black and white.

    15. So many modern-era works in English also reference, critique, or otherwise interact with the diction and prosodic style of the KJV. I know most of the recommendations here are referring to historical or thematic context, but the influence on the syntax, prosody, and structure of English-language poetry is almost boundless. In that regard, it’s at least worth picking through some key chapters and psalms as written in the KJV.

      Edit* Arthurian romance is another big part of the western canon that I haven’t seen mentioned here. It’s largely characterized by tension between Christian and pagan influences, and the romance structure went on to help shape the novel and a lot of our sensibilities of modern narrative in the West.

    16. Ayearinbooks on

      You’ve had some great answers. I’d add that as well as KJV, the language of the Book of Common Prayer was very influential

    17. UnimaginativeNameABC on

      I have Alter. Haven’t read much of it yet, but really impressed so far.

    18. I wouldn’t use those more obscure translations, they are more scholarly, but if you are trying to understand how the Bible has influenced Western Canon and literature I would read the actual translations that have made the impact. Notably the KJV (King James Version), or the NIV (New international version). Now, I’m not defending either translation as accurate or good, but they are the versions that have actually made the impact and used as the foundation of modern christianity.

      If you just want to familiarize yourself with the canon, I would read Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges, the Samuels, the Kings, and then Psalms and Proverbs. Those will have most of the stories from the OT. For NT, pick between Mathew, Mark, and Luke, then also read John. Then I would read Acts, and the Paul letters I would say are optional. Then finish with Revelation.

    19. It’s not only literature that directly references the Bible or [alludes to it in idioms](https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1941/50-biblical-phrases-idioms–metaphors/), it’s that for the last 1600 years all the characters in literature are familiar with the Bible and presumptively believe it. Even the Free Thinkers of the 18th and 19th century, held their beliefs in opposition to the dominant culture that believed. Belief and familiarity with the Bible are baked into every story. All the utopian or social improvement groups were Christian (if Marianne Williamson had come 100 years earlier, she would have started a church). Every political or social controversy was also a religious one. Even the Koran is a consideration of Christianity. Describing the influence of the Bible on Western culture, thought, and literature is like explaining water to fish.

    20. This is a hot take here. But I’d argue that after the Torah, the Gospels + Acts, Plato, and the Quran are more important to contextualizing modern Christianity. 

      When you get to St Augustine, a lot of Confessions and City of God are arguments for a literal interpretation of biblical lit. And it’s mushed together with novel ideas about an afterlife which match Plato’s Phaedo more than anything said in the Bible.  And that paradigm from Plato to the Neoplationists to early Christian thought is super strong (in western Christianity.) Those same ideas of a justice-based afterlife (as opposed to a resurrection) make their way to Dante, who pretty much influences everything after that. 

      But if you read the Quran, besides the whole “Jesus can’t be a ‘son’ of God,” you’ll see a departure from literal biblical interpretation towards a faith-based approach to salvation which becomes the root for a lot of Protestant religious sentiment. I mean… Martin Luther himself was heavily involved in translating and studying the Quran and the ‘religion of the Turks,’ in the 1540s. 

      Ecclesiates and Song of Solomon can be fun reads too in how drastically different they are from the rest of the Bible. The two almost seem like they were written by Epicurus himself, professing nihilism, apatheism, and sensual pleasure-seeking.

      All of this leads to 2 or 3 conflicting views: whether god and religion is best approached by logic (Aquinas, Spinoza, etc.,) through faith, or just ignored. And the conflict, defense, argument, introspection, and mastication of these three schools really drive western philosophy, literature, history, politics, and culture for a couple thousand years (again, in the West.)

      I think you can skip a lot of the “histories,” psalms, and epistles. The epistles, especially. They really seem to go on and on and on about whether Christians have to be circumcised and I, personally, didn’t get much else out of them. 

    21. praetorian_halfguard on

      Check out Northrop Frye. He has a free lecture series from back in the day on YouTube and wrote a book “The great code” on the Bible as literature. He was teaching English literature on U of Toronto in the 80s ( I think?) and realized his students didn’t understand the biblical references etc so he created a course to give them the foundation. Ended up writing the book based on those courses.

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