I was about to pick up house in the Cerulean sea and a few of TJ klunes other books that I own and of course he’s problematic. It has to do with the 60s scoop that involved Native Americans and what horrible things happen to them. My father being a part of that as a Native American himself and a young teen when it happened. He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea. Which is not okay and he’s coming out with a second book to that one next year. I don’t think the publishers should be going forward with this next book but of course they will cuz it’s going to make them money. Should I now tell people the talk about this book but he’s problematic and after that let them do their own research or not say anything?
by merfaewit13
14 Comments
Everyone is their own judge of what’s too problematic, idk I think it’s a criticism if it’s as bad as you say
Is this satire? Lots of stories are inspired by real historical tragedies. One of the most famous anime is based on the holocaust and the author is Japanese.
Please read the Reddit post “In Defence of T.J. Klune and The House in the Cerulean Sea (and Also a Review)” I’m on mobile and not fully sure how to link it.
It describes exactly the sentiment you’re trying to make but explains it way better than I can.
I read the book earlier this year and I enjoyed it. I didn’t even know it was regarding the 60’s scoop or Indigenous People until I read about the backlash online afterwards. I personally thought it was about discrimination based around something we can’t control, such as being queer, or born a specific race, etc.
I’ve already pre-ordered my copy of the sequel.
1) Please don’t use “problematic” when you mean “racist”.
2) There’s a lot of discourse surrounding this novel in particular and its weird-ass inspiration. You are not the only vector for this information. If you think it’s necessary and you can make your point clearly, by all means, do so, but also, relax. Nobody is going to yell at you if you decide not to–at least, nobody worth taking seriously.
I read the book earlier this year and I enjoyed it. I didn’t even know it was regarding the 60’s scoop or Indigenous People until I read about the backlash online afterwards. I personally thought it was about discrimination based around something we can’t control, such as being queer, or born with a specific skintone, etc.
Please read the Reddit post “In Defence of T.J. Klune and The House in the Cerulean Sea (and Also a Review)”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/s/li41oCqsoo
You can skip ahead to the paragraph after the quote “Change often starts with the smallest of whispers. Like-minded people building it up to a roar.”
It describes exactly the sentiment you’re trying to make but explains why it’s not the case way better than I ever can.
Ive already pre-ordered my copy of the sequel.
I think there’s a lot of value in books that present a thoughtful narrative about learning from the mistakes made but after a very quick google because of your post, that isn’t the case here. I’m glad to know this and will pass on the book.
It makes me think of a fairly recent issue with a book in my home. Our Ontario school boards have changed the 11th grade mandatory English to “Indigenous Voices”. So poems, songs and novels by Indigenous creators, reflecting their culture etc. My son was working on questions for The Diary of a Part Time Indian and asked for my opinion on something. Not sure either we googled and it turns out the author was reported for sexual harassment by 10 women https://www.npr.org/2018/03/05/589909379/it-just-felt-very-wrong-sherman-alexies-accusers-go-on-the-record
I did mention it in passing when I saw the teacher next (kid gets extra spec Ed support so we talk) but that’s about it.
I did use the opportunity to have a discussion with my then 16 yo son. One of many since he’s all OMG you’ve already said this lol. Good dude consent is #1.
So I hear you on how do you approach talking about these things. I am not Indigenous and I don’t want to insert myself but as a woman I had thoughts. Son 2 will be in this course next semester so I’ll know then if they picked a different book.
I don’t know anything about the book. What specifically about the book is problematic to you? Did you read the book, like it, and then change your mind when someone else told you it’s problematic? It very well may be but I would hope you could make your own mind about it and explain why.
>He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea. Which is not okay
Personally, I think he should have been clear from the get-go about the inspiration.Traumatic events in history *should* be discussed and sometimes dealing with them in a less than direct manner (i.e. a speculative fiction inspired by) makes that discussion easier.
Goddamn, read the book and enjoy it for what it is or isn’t. I guarantee you, there is something to find problematic or that will offend someone in every piece of worthwhile art or literature – it’s kind of what makes it worth discussing.
Sometimes you just have to separate the artist from the art. You can acknowledge that the art is good and maybe the person behind it is just so-so. If you find they are too problematic to support, buy their books second hand if you still want to read them. People are not perfect and art is created from all different sources. I feel this is true through lots of art scenes, especially in music.
I actually did not like this book very much (it was too twee for my taste, and felt like a weird mashup of a children’s and an adult-targeted book), but this is a ridiculous complaint. If you’re finding that all the authors you like are “problematic,” my sense from this post is that you’re probably looking very hard for reasons to cancel them and creating your own sense of disappointment. It read like more of an allegory for queerness than anything else; if it was inspired by this history, the final product is so far removed from it that I would never have guessed. In any case, it sounds like he’s been forthright and apologetic to the extent that he even needs to be. I’ll third the suggestion that you read [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/oay4hq/in_defence_of_t_j_klune_and_the_house_in_the/?share_id=IhbbAOGcEI6v8qGNGb0ur&utm_content=2&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) and think about how making accusatory posts like this can be harmful to authors’ mental health.
Or you could stop giving a shit what other people think, read what you want, and come to your own conclusions?
> He basically used a traumatic time in history as inspiration for his story house in the Cerulean sea. Which is not okay
Why is that not okay?
Do you realize how many fictional villains are based on historical villains? The stormtroopers in Star Wars are named after Nazi sturmtruppen. There’s more fantasy novels than I can count that are directly modeled after some specific historical conflict. The fanatical Inquisitor is a stock villain taken straight from the historic Spanish Inquisition. Pretty much any genocidal villain in sci-fi is at least partly inspired by Hitler.
Let’s take it all the way: George Orwell’s *Animal Farm* is a direct allegory for the Stalinist era of the Soviet Union.
Have any of those things ever bothered you before? What’s changed now?
I think the only thing that needs to be retired is the use of the word problematic in this kind of context, along with the virtue signalling pitchforks.